Author Topic: Niggers are clearly savages, unable to resist the simplest of urges...  (Read 2287 times)

Offline Julius

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Niggers are clearly savages, unable to resist the simplest of urges...
« Reply #75 on: June 25, 2007, 01:58:49 AM »
It's not the only thing they're doing.

Derty - that Opal fuel implementation went all the way through last year sometime (fucking finally, useless politicians). I know it's cut down sniffing, but I don't know whether they're turning to other stuff yet - or have already.
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Offline Soma

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Niggers are clearly savages, unable to resist the simplest of urges...
« Reply #76 on: June 25, 2007, 03:04:05 AM »
Maybe niggers just love getting high!!

Don't these communities have law enforcement or something?? Surely throwing the offenders in jail would curb the child abuse problem pretty quickly?!
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Offline Julius

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« Reply #77 on: June 25, 2007, 03:24:24 AM »
Haha, law enforcement.

Because of the size of the country, road trains (trucks with more than 1 trailer) travel fast, non-stop. And by non-stop, I mean if they hit an aborigine, they don't stop. Because if they do, they don't ever drive again. There isn't any law out where it's a 5 hour drive to the nearest town of over 50 people!


Edit because I'm not a double-posting whore! :lurk:
What was mentioned earlier in the thread...:
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,21961135-5006301,00.html
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Offline Fred's Bimbo Girl

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« Reply #78 on: June 25, 2007, 01:20:21 PM »
Quote from: Soma
Don't these communities have law enforcement or something?? Surely throwing the offenders in jail would curb the child abuse problem pretty quickly?!
one of the communities the minister for indigenous affairs (mal brough) went to recently had 3000 residents and not one police officer.

amanda, what you said was
Quote from: amanda
Child abuse isn't because of alcohol or *, it's a cycle.
which is a very different argument to
Quote from: amanda
Sorry, but I don't buy for a second that banning booze and * is going to stop a raging child abuse problem, not in the slightest.
and here's a little something for you to read from noel pearson, the director of the cape york institute for policy and leadership, and a highly respected indigenous australian. i am cutnpasting so that you can all read it without having to make the effort to click on a link.


Quote
"INDIGENOUS Affairs Minister Mal Brough telephoned me 15 minutes before he and Prime Minister John Howard made their announcement of a national emergency response to protect Aboriginal children in the Northern Territory. He took me through the measures the federal Government would be taking.

I thought to myself: “Well, mate, if you think you had your work cut out for you in Cape York, then this is going to place you in the national firing line.”

While the plan is a necessary development, there are risks associated with the bold line of attack announced by Brough and Howard. My assessment is:

* The focus on grog and policing is correct, but as well as policing there must be a strategy for building indigenous social and cultural ownership.

* Making welfare payments conditional is correct, but the Howard-Brough plan needs to be amended so responsible behaviour is encouraged. Responsible people shouldn’t just be lumped in with irresponsible people.

* The land-related measures are clumsy and ideological, but they are not an attempt at a land grab, and the problems with the land measures are nowhere near as high a priority as action for the welfare of children.

* There is a huge implementation challenge. Based on the performance of the federal and provincial bureaucracies up to now, I am not confident they are up to it. The Council of Australian Governments trials in the past five years have not delivered meaningful results.

This is not my plan. It is the federal Government’s plan. If it were up to me I would do some things differently. But I am not the government and, like everyone, I have to deal with the realities as they are, not how I would prefer them to be.

A few simple questions lead me to the view that decisive action is needed.

First, is the situation of children’s welfare in indigenous communities in the NT and the states a situation of national priority? We have just had the Anderson-Wild report on the NT. Similar reports have come down in recent years in Queensland, NSW, South Australia and Western Australia. No one denies the situation is a national priority.

Second, is the situation with children’s welfare one of national emergency? Child protection is not like poverty or educational underachievement or general socioeconomic disadvantage. Time and deliberation can be taken when considering and devising solutions to these large structural problems.

But what do you do when a child is being subjected to abuse this very day? What do you do when a child is likely to be abused next week? What do you when the abuse is going to happen the week after next? What do we do when there are scores of children involved across the communities, the states and territories? If it were your child at risk of this suffering, would you think this a matter of emergency?

This is not a moral panic. The abuse is real. This is not a media or political beat-up. The report from Pat Anderson and Rex Wild confirms a reality of suffering. Something has to be done to relieve the suffering now, not in six months, not in two years. Now.

We can’t rehabilitate people from alcohol or drug dependence immediately. We can’t fix the poor education immediately. We can’t fix up the poor health immediately. But we must stop the suffering straight away. Everyone, from the Prime Minister to his bitterest opponents, centres their preferred strategy or response on the fate of the children. No one can escape this fact: the fate of the children is the bottom line. Whatever one thinks of Howard and Brough, their strategy is justified on the basis of the fate of the children. If not Brough and Howard’s plan to stop the suffering, then what alternative plan should be pursued? Here most of the critics fall into a deafening silence. They have vociferous views about what will not work, but they are silent about what will work. So the sum total of their response—“we don’t need missionary paternalism again”, “prohibition doesn’t work”, “indigenous people must consent to the changes”, “we need more government services”, “we have to provide rehabilitation”, “we have to deal with intergenerational trauma”, “we have to deal with things in a holistic way”—is inaction and procrastination while children’s lives continue to be ruined. It is not that the points made by the critics are wrong—they are often correct—but their criticism does not translate and often cannot be translated into action.

I believe the Government’s proposal will make a difference in the short term. If one accepts that the proposed measures will save women and children this year, then the bottom line is this: rejecting the Government’s emergency measures equates with giving priority to some other issue before rescuing the children.

Even where extremely concerted responses have been implemented, such as the new child safety regime in Queensland, which has made significant improvements to the child protection system, we are a long way from stopping the abuse.

All we have now is a new system to respond to abuse. We don’t have a system to prevent the abuse. There are still about 80 child welfare notifications a month across the communities of Cape York.

About 30 of these notifications are substantiated. Of the remaining 50 there is a lot of doubt as to whether the assessment bar is too high because officials (such as school principals and health workers) who are obliged to report cases of suspected abuse or neglect are perplexed as to why particular cases were not able to be substantiated.

One leading principal from a school in Cape York told me: “I fill out these reports in as objective and straightforward a manner as I can. I have a statutory duty to report accurately what I see. Unless a child is bleeding, it’s very hard. There is a delay in time before the child safety people arrive. They don’t see what the teachers see.”

A retired principal from my home town who served at the primary school in the 1980s, having read my account of the problems at Hope Vale, wrote to me recently: “You have spoken, Noel, of the sexual assault and unlawful intercourse with minors. It concerned me back in the ‘80s when a Year 1 boy was playing truant through fear. He was being sexually assaulted on his way home from school by his Year 8 uncle.

“Painful as it was for me and for the mothers of these kids, I had to bring it to their notice. There was great shame and unwillingness to accept, and a wish to sweep it under the mat [through fear of community reaction, I presume, and especially that the occurrence was known to a white person]. I left the matter for them to clean up, as I saw my brief was to keep the children safe, not to stir up trouble in dominating the community.”

I think about this fearful boy. I don’t know who he was. I would doubtless know him if his identity were revealed. If he is still alive he is probably between 26 and 29. What has he become since Year 1? Has he turned into an abuser? What has his uncle, who must be between 33 and 36, done since Year 8? Did he continue to abuse this nephew or other children? Did something in his own childhood lead to his behaviour?

Queensland may have the most concerted governmental response to child protection anywhere in Australia, but we are still talking about a system that deals with abuse and neglect after it has become a problem. We are not talking about a system that prevents the abuse or neglect before it becomes a problem.

This is why we have proposed the welfare reform measures that we have put forward to the federal and Queensland governments. We propose that a family responsibilities commission be established by the Beattie Government to exercise powers over welfare payments. These powers need to be granted to the state-created commission by the federal Government. Our most eminent elders need to sit on this street-level commission.

We need Howard and Peter Beattie to co-operate to make our proposal work.

The aim of the family responsibilities commission is to intervene early, to hold adults to account for their behaviour and to ensure that the welfare of children is the utmost priority. This is about complementing the Queensland Government’s existing child safety response system with an effective and practical prevention system.

But we urgently need legislation from the Prime Minister and the Premier.

Let me return to the next question about the federal government plan: does the fact that Howard and Brough are politically motivated in the conception and activation of their plan make their plan unsupportable? Does the fact that there are electoral calculations underpinning this manoeuvre make their proposed intervention wrong?

Of course not. I could not care less if the plan is accompanied by political motivations. If the plan is aimed at providing relief from suffering then this has priority over everything. Whether Howard or Kevin Rudd ends up being the prime minister of the next parliament is not worth two cents in my calculation compared with whether we have a plan that can cut through immediately.

Grog and policing are the most urgent priorities. The Anderson-Wild report makes clear, as if we did not already know, that there is a direct connection between the epidemic of grog and drug abuse and the neglect and abuse of children. It was the hapless mother in a small community called Grassy Narrows in Ontario, Canada, who told a social scientist who wrote about parallel problems in indigenous communities there more than 20 years ago that these addictions are “a poison stronger than love”.

We have always known grog is a problem for our people. But to know that grog is a problem is not enough. Because we have plenty of problems. We have plenty of explanations for our problems. We have plenty of proposed solutions. The question is: what emphasis, what strategic priority, what urgency, what focus do we give to grog?

If you acknowledge that grog is a problem but you don’t give it emphasis, priority or focus, then it is likely you will do nothing about it.

This is the story of Aboriginal policy and Aboriginal leadership in this country. We all have said that grog is a problem, but we have not given it the emphasis or priority or focus it needs for us to get on top of the problem.

Take the royal commission into Aboriginal deaths in custody. It mentioned grog as a significant problem in the story of over-representation of indigenous people in custody. But it did not bring grog into relief. It did not make a confrontation with grog a principal target of policy and action. Grog was just one of a long list of underlying factors. But there are factors and there are factors. Some factors are primary and therefore need to be tackled as primary factors. Grog and drugs must be seen as primary factors.

We are paying the price for the intellectual and policy failure of those royal commissioners of 17 years ago.

The only worthwhile outcome was a report compiled by Marcia Langton, of the commission’s Aboriginal issues unit, chaired by Patrick Dodson, called Too Much Sorry Business. This was the only intellectually worthwhile output from that entire wasteful enterprise. Its discussion of grog as a primary problem is as fresh as the Anderson-Wild report just handed down, but it did not play a central role in the royal commission’s final report and recommendations.

So 17 years of the connection between grog and child abuse goes by unrecognised by policy. How much of today’s problem could have been avoided had we got the thinking and the policy right back then?

The Howard-Brough plan to tackle grog and to provide policing is correct. However, the plan needs to be amended so that there is a concerted strategy to build indigenous social and cultural ownership.

Howard and Brough need to understand the challenge is this: we must restore Aboriginal law in these communities. We must restore Aboriginal values and Aboriginal morality in our communities.

Aboriginal law, properly understood, is not the problem, it is the solution. When I say Aboriginal law, I just do not mean the laws that prevailed in our pre-colonial classical culture, I mean our contemporary values and expectations about behaviour. The old law did not deal with grog, drugs, gambling, money and private property.

These new things have represented a fundamental challenge for Aboriginal culture. Many communities have struggled to apply the values that underpinned their traditional law to these new challenges.

We have not met this challenge successfully. We desperately need to. We need to develop an Aboriginal law that deals effectively with these new challenges: grog, drugs, gambling, money and private property.

Some communities have articulated an Aboriginal law that deals with the new challenges as well as the old. Many communities have strong social and cultural norms dealing with the old challenges, but they are hapless in the face of the new challenges. What does Aboriginal law have to say when relatives want money for binge drinking?

Howard and Brough will make a historic mistake if they are contemptuous of the role that a proper and modern articulation of Aboriginal law must play in the social reconstruction of indigenous societies. I support their determination to end the suffering."
there are some spectacularly brilliant points in that. i welcome your views.
i'm just attracted to shiny things. and soft
fluffy things. god help me if someone ever invents a soft fluffy shiny thing.


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Offline Soma

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Niggers are clearly savages, unable to resist the simplest of urges...
« Reply #79 on: June 25, 2007, 02:36:48 PM »
Hmm law enforcement eh? I guess banning alcohol is less invasive than forcing them to move to places where there are police... I wonder how many would choose to move if the government set up programs that could help them to adjust to 20th century life
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Offline nunya

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« Reply #80 on: June 25, 2007, 03:09:48 PM »
I really hope that someone listens to what Noel Pearson has to say and the whole Howard-Brough initiative is not simply a political ploy to get a kick in the Liberal party's flagging polls.

cross fingers that this is a 'core' promise.
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Offline Julius

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« Reply #81 on: June 25, 2007, 03:15:59 PM »
As if it's not related to the election. They can splutter and whinge all they want, but this was timed as a possible get out of jail card for the Liberals (right wing, conservation, Thin's future lovers).
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Offline Thin

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« Reply #82 on: June 25, 2007, 04:43:07 PM »
Of course it was political, it was enacted by a government in an election year :p. Motive is irrelevant however, when the actions are going to do good.

The truth is, though, Howard could do nothing for the Aboriginals and it wouldn't be a loss in the polls for him. They represent less than 1% of the voting population and them or their sympathisers are hardly going to vote liberal anyway.

So no, very far from a get out of jail free card. Inside sources tell me Howard still has a rabbit he's going to pull out just before the election, and it will be a lot better than this.

Offline Julius

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« Reply #83 on: June 26, 2007, 02:14:50 AM »
Motive is NOT irrelevant in an election year, especially for someone who has previously tried to base themselves on being a good, decent bloke that you can trust. And you're kidding, right? You don't think the average Australian's thoughts won't be affected by what the pollies say they'll do, once this report's been released? :/ It's not just their sympathisers, most people know there's a problem (especially after the Ads-vertiser et al headlines), and think something should be done... after 11 years in office?


Anyway, I didn't say "get out of jail free", I said "possible get out of jail card". Different.

Also, I heard an interview with Mal Brough last night - he was trying as hard as he could to get the point across that he wanted the states to doing something to support, instead of cry and whinge. He had a point. Plus, if he performs in this, hello to personal political gains. Howard, however, has been called a lying rodent (from the mouths of his own party), and is one. As if you'd trust him.
...but then, I guess you would, Thin.
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Offline Thin

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« Reply #84 on: June 26, 2007, 03:45:39 AM »
:) call him what you want, but you do have to admit that Howard is a brilliant politician; he knows exactly how to use events, policies and situations to win elections. After ten years in office I have to applaud him as a spectacular and very cunning politician; whilst the Labour party have continued to fall flat on their face.
*shrugs* I like to back a winner.

My point was that motive is irrelevant because these policies are going to help even if they were conducted from altruism or from a political analyst.
If Howard, or the liberal party were thinking like *true* right-wing politicians, they wouldn't help the aboriginals out at all; they're a right-wing party and no one really expects them to and helping aboriginals is NOT a vote winner. I say this because they represent a small part of the population (who would not vote liberal) and average Australians like yourself, who agree with the policy, will still not be convinced to vote liberal from it. So there must be some altruism there.

You said yourself, that this has been a recognised problem for elven years... Howard was able to win the past two elections by completly ignoring it. The average Australian does not give a flying fuck about aboriginals; tragic but true. Moral relativism will only kick in when the government decides it wants action. Aboriginals have become an election issue because the Liberal party decided to make it one; not because the calls from the public have deemed it so.

I would be stupid to trust any politician, Julius. But I would give my vote to the one who will give me the most benefits; rather than one because he's "Not Howard". What policies has Rudd proposed?
I'm not going to enter into a political debate, maybe something best left for the coming election.

But if Howard is down by ten points in the polls when we go to election we are going to be in for a very interesting run at the finishing line. I would back Howard, just because I've seen what he can do in the past...

Offline Julius

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« Reply #85 on: June 26, 2007, 04:09:23 AM »
So you're happy with the state of issues like a certain couple of wars, children in the water, crop mismanagement?
Quote
What policies has Rudd proposed?
Err... like every single one that Howard has pulled out in the last month and a half? And Rudd's are better. Howard's internet plan is a joke, scrabbled together to get the coverage numbers as high as possible. He's missed the point of investing in the infrastructure. :-P

Note: I'm not actually that big a fan of Rudd in the way he does some stuff: from what I heard, Gillard was pretty good standing in for him in parliament - but then, she was lacking when communicating what exactly they're doing with the work reforms... I don't think Howard would be doing me any favours, but then, I don't want to be in a situation where I'm relying on the goverment quite that much. I prefer to manage my own life, thanks. :p
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Offline Phoenix

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« Reply #86 on: June 26, 2007, 11:00:58 AM »
Howard might not be the soundest moral candidate for premiership, Labor's done nothing but imitate monkeys and sling feces around.

Politics in Australia almost makes me homesick for a country where the average punter at least pretends to give a shit about what the government is doing. :/

...


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Offline Fred's Bimbo Girl

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« Reply #87 on: June 26, 2007, 01:44:58 PM »
yes, back on topic you louts! or get your political opinions into your own thread! :p

look, i don't give a shit what the motives are, the situation in the top-end is abysmal, and if sending in the cops and the troops helps save some children from further abuse, well and good.
i'm just attracted to shiny things. and soft
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Offline pBluescript

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« Reply #88 on: June 30, 2007, 06:32:41 PM »
I amazes me how the rest of the world tosses around the word 'nigger' so casually.
It is such a taboo word here in the states for us wonder  bread folk.

It makes my fingers itchy just typing the word.
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Offline Auryn

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« Reply #89 on: June 30, 2007, 07:12:53 PM »
I guess it's because most countries don't have such a rich relatively recent history of in-house race-based slavery. *shrug*


You're a weird country anyway.  I remember reading somewhere that Muhammed Ali almost got violent with a popular TV host here when said host said something like "I like the boy" of him.  It was said in a sincere, friendly manner.  Apparently referring to an African American as "boy" is a grave insult and naturally you assume the rest of the world has any idea WTF you lot are on about. :p
Fortunately Ali now has Parkinson's, lol.
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Offline pBluescript

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« Reply #90 on: July 01, 2007, 03:10:57 AM »
Yah, in the states you don't call a black man 'boy' or 'son' or 'uncle'.
It is viewed as very paternalistic or patronizing.

In my thread about hypermileing, Ashe called me 'son'.  I thought about taking him to task for it, but decided it wasn't worth the lulz.
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Offline Soma

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« Reply #91 on: July 01, 2007, 03:25:43 AM »
Yeah I saw that... took Ali a few minutes to realise it wasn't an insult

I say nigger all the time, mostly from imitating hilarious black comedians "Nigger God damn!!" ...also I guess I just never find myself around anyone who would be offended by the word these days ...back home I would have been around black people a lot more often, but here it's like they're basically non existent, except for the ones hanging out in the city park lands

I saw a Dave Chappelle interview once where he said he still got mad when white people said nigger around him... he even said it bothered him when a white person came up and said "I loved that Niggars sketch you did" (referring to a sketch where a white family had the last name "Niggar")

Seems odd to me to be so offended by a word, especially one you say so often... I'm trying to think of an insulting word for white people that I may get offended by, but I don't think there is one, but then again I've never been part of a minority

/rant
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Offline Iridescence

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« Reply #92 on: July 01, 2007, 08:38:04 AM »
Hypocracy.  It's hypocritical to say that "I can use the word nigger about myself and my people, but if you white person dare, then we'll kick your ass into next week"  About as hypocritical about homosexuals calling themselves "Fags" but getting all offended when someone else does it?  What's the point?  Either you find the word offensive, and don't use it in any fashion, or you don't.  Make up your minds dammit.
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Offline Soma

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« Reply #93 on: July 01, 2007, 10:21:27 AM »
Yeah it seemed that he realised it wasn't really rational, but said that it still bothered him anyway... I guess it's something that's instilled in many black people from a young age, Chappelle said his grandparents would probably throw a fit at him if they saw him using the word in such a way

As a black American what is your opinion on all of this, Ashe?

Edit - lol forgot to put Ashe's name in there
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Offline Auryn

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« Reply #94 on: July 01, 2007, 10:35:35 AM »
Quote from: Iridescence
Hypocracy.  It's hypocritical to say that "I can use the word nigger about myself and my people, but if you white person dare, then we'll kick your ass into next week"  About as hypocritical about homosexuals calling themselves "Fags" but getting all offended when someone else does it?  What's the point?  Either you find the word offensive, and don't use it in any fashion, or you don't.  Make up your minds dammit.
Haven't you heard?  They're "taking it back".  Which means pretty much nothing in the end since such words are still considered offensive.
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Offline GrimReaper of Wrestling

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« Reply #95 on: July 01, 2007, 12:35:33 PM »
Quote from: Soma
Maybe niggers just love getting high!!
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Offline rille

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« Reply #96 on: July 01, 2007, 07:13:23 PM »
Starting to remind me of that South Park episode...


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