Author Topic: Scariest thing I have seen so far this year.  (Read 3392 times)

Offline Aginor

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Scariest thing I have seen so far this year.
« Reply #100 on: February 12, 2008, 08:20:56 AM »
Quote from: dkan
Well often pro-choice people say anti-choice folks are misogynistic or want to control people, which I think are evil motivations. I only speak for myself but that's not the reason for my views. Same way as I can see why people would be for legalizing abortion because criminalization sometimes make things worse.

..though comments about the unborn being 'parasites' strike me as being more bitter than anything I've said.
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Offline Rick

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« Reply #101 on: February 12, 2008, 12:14:45 PM »
Quote from: Kat
I don't hear too many folk bemoaning the mood swings and achy backs once they hold their newborn in their arms.   :)
No,  then they bemoan the incessant wailing, the shitting, the messy eating et cetera ad infinitum.
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Offline Croi Boi

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« Reply #102 on: February 12, 2008, 05:15:17 PM »
I can't believe I used to get suckered into these bash-fests.  :)
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Offline Mandie

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« Reply #103 on: February 12, 2008, 06:39:56 PM »
After having carried not one but two, I'll witness to the fact that a fetus is a parasite for sure, esp when I am sick and huddled over the toilet gagging. :p

Offline Lannie

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« Reply #104 on: February 12, 2008, 06:59:00 PM »
Quote from: dkan
Quote from: Lannie
That was never the issue. If you had a few working braincells, you know that it was just an addition to Amanda's statement about how it's the mother's body. And that she should decide what happens to her body... as every woman should. Until the child's born, it's an organism that parasites on the mother's body, and thus it's up to the mother; she has more right to make decisions than anyone else in the world.

Question though; your comment on being allowed to 'kill senile grandparents if they're inconveniencing you' sounds so bitter that I wonder if you're against euthanasia (sp?), too. Do you feel that's murder, too?
Yes of course. It follows from the same logic and principle.
And in the case of my grandfather, dying from cancer - in a terminal phase, no hope left - who had weeks of pain and suffering and shitting himself and withering away ahead of him and asked his doctor to be relieved from his pain earlier? You still feel that's murder? A despicable thing? Isn't that mercy?

Also, wrt the parasite thing: I didn't mean it in a bitter way. The child eats the mother's food, nourishes itself because of the mother's body. It inconveniences her (somewhat). In my (maybe limited in the field of biology) eyes that's a bit of a parasite. But as soon it's born, that's a completely different situation. If you look closely, you'd see that I didn't say anything about that, I was referring that it's the mother who is bearing the child, so from a physical point of view she gets to call the shots... I think that's only fair :)
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Offline dkan

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« Reply #105 on: February 13, 2008, 12:43:34 AM »
I think you should never ask anyone to kill anyone else. If you want to die, take your own life alone but don't involve someone else causing them to become murderers.

Offline Julius

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« Reply #106 on: February 13, 2008, 12:57:06 AM »
You don't quite get the methodolgy of euthanasia, do you?
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Offline Devlyn, the special edition

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« Reply #107 on: February 13, 2008, 09:12:40 AM »
Quote from: dkan
I think you should never ask anyone to kill anyone else. If you want to die, take your own life alone but don't involve someone else causing them to become murderers.
...which really isn't that much of an issue. We have the luxury to choose that under some conditions we do not want to be abandoned and suffer a long and horribly painful death, but rather a shorter death that is more respectful to the person dying and the people close to that person.

If you choose to deny yourself that luxury, that is your choice. But really, have you got any clue of what kind of suffering we're talking about?
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Offline dkan

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« Reply #108 on: February 13, 2008, 12:13:19 PM »
Yes and it doesn't make a difference. No government should legalize murder

Offline Mordeth

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« Reply #109 on: February 13, 2008, 12:36:33 PM »
uh

war, death pentaly, the police with guns?

lots of governments do, most of them wouldn't survive if they didn't.
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Offline dkan

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« Reply #110 on: February 13, 2008, 01:39:09 PM »
Yeah as punishments for crime or in self-defence, the purpose being to save lives

It's not the same thing. Euthanasia/abortion is giving up on life.

Offline Mordeth

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« Reply #111 on: February 13, 2008, 01:57:18 PM »
Lesbians shouldnt be allowed to use dildos. They have made their choice

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Offline FoiD

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« Reply #112 on: February 13, 2008, 02:18:42 PM »
Quote from: dkan
Yeah as punishments for crime or in self-defence, the purpose being to save lives

It's not the same thing. Euthanasia/abortion is giving up on life.
Or saving someone from suffering.
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Wow, that was incrediblt rude, even by your standards.
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Offline Kat

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« Reply #113 on: February 13, 2008, 03:49:47 PM »
I really think there's something wrong with a mentality that says killing someone to punish them is okay, but that voluntary acceptance of death in the face of terminal disease is not.  That doesn't seem backwards to you?
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Offline Lannie

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« Reply #114 on: February 13, 2008, 04:11:29 PM »
So you can take your own life, but if you can't get up from your bed to get your own fucking morphine to make you sleep forever, you should suffer until death?

(and what Kat said... total agreement.)
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Offline Devlyn, the special edition

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« Reply #115 on: February 13, 2008, 05:26:11 PM »
Quote from: "dkan"
Yes and it doesn't make a difference.
So according to you it does not make a difference whether a human has tremendous traumatic pain with no hope for a way out other than death, or not?

I know the Bible refers to suffering and pain like it's some kind of pizza-topping, but issues like these affect people completely. You make no sense whatsoever by first stating that you are pro-life and that the government should never murder anyone, only to proceed with the claim that killing to save lives is okay and that it really doesn't matter whether people are in an incurable state of torture or not.

Human life may start with a bloodflow and a heartbeat, but it sure does not end with it. Quality of life is what ultimately defines life.
If you consider yourself honestly pro-life, you should seriously reconsider your positions, opt for a less black-and-white approach and aim towards opinions that benefit people's quality of life, rather than preserve heartbeats against any price (even prolonged torture apparently).

Some people would like not to end up in such situations of hopeless suffering. Their choice for death in such cases hurts no-one, giving you no right to enforce anything against their will.

Besides, your whole prioritization at preserving heartbeats is horribly ineffective. Much cheaper and less drastic measures are possible to save a much larger number of heartbeats. Why not make open an "issue" using those?
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Offline Mandie

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« Reply #116 on: February 17, 2008, 02:50:13 AM »
When people that are against humane euthanasia are on their death beds riddled with disease, pain, anguish, depression and imminent death, I'll be sure to protest them having control over their own lives to end it.

My mother got an extra special dose of morphine in her morphine drip when she died. She didn't suffer nearly as much as she could have or as long as she could have... she was too out of it, and I am very thankful for that.

Offline Kat

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« Reply #117 on: February 17, 2008, 03:37:28 PM »
God knows we would have looked at euthanasia as an option when my grandfather was dying, had it been legal in the US.  He chose not to treat his cancer because treatment only would have prolonged his life a short while and he wanted to suffer as little as possible, but the last few months of his life were agony anyway.  Euthanasia might have let him keep some dignity instead of watching his body fall apart a bit at a time.

On most issues I can see where the other side is coming from, but I just don't understand people who are against euthanasia.
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Offline dkan

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« Reply #118 on: February 17, 2008, 08:11:07 PM »
Like I said you can take drugs to reduce the pain or kill yourself but you shouldn't ask others to do it

And whether it happens or not it definitely shouldn't be legal or condoned by society

Offline Deus

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« Reply #119 on: February 17, 2008, 10:56:51 PM »
Drugs to reduce pain don't keep working like that. You build up tolerance against them and need to up the dose until they become lethal...
Also in a lot of cases euthenasia is for people who cannot kill themselves any longer, so simply saying that you should always do it yourself is simply a way of dodging a major part of this issue...
Personally I think euthenasia is one of the most humane laws that a country can put into its legal system. My mother, who as a home nurse worked with a lot of terminally ill people, said that to almost all of those who decided on euthenasia it was like a gift from heaven. These people, once they knew they could decide on their own death, were much at peace, much more dignified, had time to take care of their affairs and say goodbye to everybody they loved...
Fortunately I live in a country where this is possible...
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Offline Mordeth

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« Reply #120 on: February 17, 2008, 11:04:47 PM »
everything is possible where you live
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Offline Nuada

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« Reply #121 on: February 17, 2008, 11:06:43 PM »
A country of Druggies and murderers, may the seas reclaim it...
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Offline Julius

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« Reply #122 on: February 17, 2008, 11:57:33 PM »
What, like Ireland, Nu?
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Offline Nasojiti

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« Reply #123 on: February 18, 2008, 12:52:30 AM »
Fuck 'em, if they not tough enough to die in terrible, horrible pain they're not worthy of sympathy.
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Offline AshtrayMonument

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« Reply #124 on: February 18, 2008, 04:53:43 AM »
Quote from: dkan
Like I said you can take drugs to reduce the pain or kill yourself but you shouldn't ask others to do it

And whether it happens or not it definitely shouldn't be legal or condoned by society
I think people need to rethink the assumption that all life is sanctified and that the very idea of taking another human's life is fucked up. I think there are many situations where it would be fucked up not to take another person's life.
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