Author Topic: US Presidential Debates...  (Read 580 times)

Offline .tidbyte.

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US Presidential Debates...
« on: October 01, 2004, 06:55:59 PM »
Anyone watch last night?

what'cha think?

personally, I though Kerry whupped his ass what with all GW's stalls, pauses and repetitious soundbytes. but then... i AM a bit biased.

Offline Mordeth

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« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2004, 07:02:42 PM »
i watched the first 20 minutes, then the net stream kept timing out. in what i saw kerry ran rings around bush, bush couldn't even remember what to say. he was slow, kept pausing and going "umm". Didn't seem to have a clue what he was talkking about, kept answering different questions to the ones that were asked.
I don't know how people put up with the embarassment of having him for president.
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Offline Sassy

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« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2004, 07:48:29 PM »
Here's what I wrote in my journal about it right after they happened:

I watched some of the debates and listened to the rest of them and plan to listen to them again. in watching them, i tried to step back and view the rhetorical debate tactics that the candidates used in their arguments. since i already know who i'm going to vote for and i love to analyze different forms of communications, i thought this would be fun.

I have to say that this was one of the best presidential debates I've seen. Most of them are about one line zingers that everyone's talking about the next day and such, but this one seemed to be much more substantive. Although, both candidates did keep coming back to some of the same points. They didn't do it as much as I feared they would because honestly, after hearing so many of their stump speeches i was tired of hearing both of them talk for hours without ever saying anything at all. I was happy to hear Bush actually admit that he might have made a mistake; i was also happy to hear Kerry admit that he did vote to go into Iraq. both things are topics they have both been tap dancing around like cats on crack and they both needed to just say it and get it over with.

I think that Kerry did a good job of using the rhetorical tactic of turning his answers into questions about bush's ability. I also think Bush did a good job of re-iterating what his strong points are and showing that he does know what's going on in the world by talking about a varity of world topics (especially when talking about North Korea and Russia he emphasized that he -is- the commander in cheif and -does- have experience in these matters, whether you agree with him or not).

I really do think it was a draw, which bodes well for Kerry, I think. They only real difference in debate quality that I could see was that Bush seemed to get really tired towards the end. i've noticed this in several of his speeches lately. After about an hour he starts to get really fuzzy and it seems it's difficult for him to find the right words...his "homey" approach starts working against him and he seems to just be wandering for the right words. I heard a speech by him in southern Minnesota about a month ago and i couldn't believe how scattered he sounded. weird.

Oddly, I heard that the republicans negotiated the height of the podium because they thought that it would make Bush look better and Kerry would have to look down a lot and look goofy, but I actually think it worked against Bush and made him look smaller and more uncomfortable. interesting. Although, Kerry did look very formal and used designed hand gestures.

Anyhoo, that's just my take on things.
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Offline Croi Boi

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« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2004, 09:47:28 PM »
Sassy, that's a really good run-down of the debate; I agree with a lot of what you said.

People have also been pointing out to me that Kerry was attacking Bush the whole time, keeping Bush on the defensive.  They say that's a bad image, but I was thinking, how else are things supposed to go?  The new candidate attacks the old adminstration, the old administration tries to defend the four years they've spent in office.  That's how the debates work.

Anyway, I think you're pretty spot on about a lot of things there.
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Offline Aginor

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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2004, 01:01:41 AM »
I'm biased as well in saying that I think that Kerry kicked Bush's ass. That being said so did the majority of people watching. Bush looked like the schoolyard bully who finally had his ass handed to him, and his body language was of a man who was defeated. Slouched over the podium, stammering through many of his points, constant and extremely rapid blinking, with a look of complete frustration very clear on his face.  Kerry looked poised, confident and very presidential, which isn't a big deal to me, (being a Dean fan) but it does matter to the average voter.

Most telling moment:

Bush: "I understand how hard it is to commit troops. I never wanted to commit troops, but the enemy attacked us and I have a solemn duty to protect the American people"

Kerry: "Saddam Hussein didn't attack us. Osama bin Laden attacked us. Al-Qaeda attacked us."

Bush: "I know Bin Laden attacked us."


My WTF moment:

Mr. Kerry Jim, let me tell you exactly what I'll do. And there are a long list of things. First of all, what kind of mixed message does it send when you've got $500 million going over to Iraq to put police officers in the streets of Iraq and the president is cutting the cops program in America? What kind of message does it send to be sending money to open firehouses in Iraq but we're shutting firehouses, who are the first responders here in America? The president hasn't put one nickel - not one nickel - into the effort to fix some of our tunnels and bridges and most exposed subway systems. That's why they had to close down the subway in New York when the Republican convention was there. We haven't done the work that ought to be done.

The president - 95 percent of the containers that come into the ports, right here in Florida, are not inspected. Civilians get onto aircraft and their luggage is X-rayed, but the cargo hold is not X-rayed. Does that make you feel safer in America?

This president thought it was more important to give the wealthiest people in America a tax cut rather than invest in homeland security. Those aren't my values. I believe in protecting America first. And long before President Bush and I get a tax cut - and that's who gets it - long before we do, I'm going to invest in homeland security and I'm going to make sure we're not cutting cops programs in America and we're fully staffed in our firehouses and that we protect the nuclear and chemical plants.

The president, also unfortunately, gave in to the chemical industry, which didn't want to do some of the things necessary to strengthen our chemical plant exposure. And there's an enormous undone job to protect the loose nuclear materials in the world that are able to get to terrorists. That's a whole other subject.

But I see we still have a little bit more time. Let me just quickly say, at the current pace, the president will not secure the loose material in the Soviet Union, former Soviet Union, for 13 years. I'm going to do it in four years. And we're going to keep it out of the hands of terrorists.

Mr. Lehrer Ninety-second response, Mr. President.

Mr. Bush I don't think we want to get to how he's going to pay for all these promises. It's like a huge tax gap and - anyway, that's for another debate.
------------------------------------

How are we gonna fucking pay to protect us? How bout you just get rid of your tax cut, you arrogant son of a bitch? You really need that extra vacation house?


I think the Bush people made a big mistake in pushing the foreign policy debate to the front. The war on terror was Bush's strongest suit, and last night he fumbled it. If Kerry can keep this up for the next two debates, the US will have a new president four weeks from now.  






For those who want to watch again: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6145009/

Offline Aginor

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« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2004, 01:49:48 AM »
Quote
I was happy to hear Bush actually admit that he might have made a mistake; i was also happy to hear Kerry admit that he did vote to go into Iraq.


When did you hear Bush admit a mistake?

Maybe you're thinking of this.

Quote
LEHRER: New question, Mr. President, two minutes. You have said there was a, quote, miscalculation, of what the conditions would be in post-war Iraq. What was the miscalculation, and how did it happen?

BUSH: No, what I said was that, because we achieved such a rapid victory, more of the Saddam loyalists were around. I mean, we thought we'd whip more of them going in.



And why would Kerry admit something that is a matter of public record?

He said that he used the wrong words in defending his vote. Big difference.

Quote
KERRY: Well, you know, when I talked about the $87 billion, I made a mistake in how I talk about the war. But the president made a mistake in invading Iraq. Which is worse?


Offline Sassy

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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2004, 03:33:08 AM »
Where did you get the transcripts of the debate? I'll look through and find what i was talking about with Bush admitting he made mistakes. I don't think it's the quote you have above, but I'll look through and see if I can find it.

I'm not saying that either of them came right out with an apology, but I've heard both of them giving speeches and kerry in an interview and they both avoided those questions with a lot of double talk and it was driving me crazy! This is the closest either of them ever came to directly answering the question. That's what I liked about the debates.
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Offline Thin

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« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2004, 06:25:47 AM »
Our leaders had their debate a few weeks ago, and the 'war on terror' and following the US foreign policy is actually our current leaders weakest point to many Australians. If Latham is elected he will pull Australian soldiers out of Iraq.

Bush has told the Australian public to vote for our current leader (Howard). That created a backlash, too, with the opposition telling the US to get out of Australian politics.

I didn't watch the US debate, but I bet it was more interesting than ours.

Offline MoP

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« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2004, 01:34:17 PM »
Thin, we didn't have a debate, we had a glorified press conference, which was the way Howard wanted it. Same as only having one "debate", the lack of the "worm" during the debate - the agenda was all set by the Liberal party.
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Offline Ranges

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« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2004, 11:25:28 PM »
Well, it seems that positioning and quite a few rules were scripted by the republicans, so that would be fair..

(oh, as for 'sources' : dutch news)
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Offline TPFNAM

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Offline Rick

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« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2004, 10:08:16 AM »
Bush:"It is hard work. It is hard work to go from a tyranny to a democracy. It's hard work to go from a place where people get their hands cut off, or executed, to a place where people are free. "

sais a former senator of texas.
please tell me he's joking?

Bush:"So you say, "Was it worth it?" Every life is precious. That's what distinguishes us from the enemy. Everybody matters. But I think it's worth it, Jim."

the actions of his troops don't reflect that all too well.
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Offline Erin

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« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2004, 02:17:35 PM »
If I was American I'd vote Kerry.

Being an Australian I'm voting Latham.

I could not consciously support Bush or Howard because of the mistake made by creating the war... not to mention so many other things. Howard's lies...
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Offline Devlyn, the special edition

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« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2004, 07:29:55 PM »
Bush makes a rather stale impression on the debate footage. As if he played his Ace card a few weeks too early...
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